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finish question http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2881	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:14 am ]
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I need some help with the finish on my first guitar. I used KTM-9 after pore-filling with System 3 epoxy. The KTM-9 was brushed on as I don't have spraying equipment. I read the instructions by John Greven and Mike Doolin, and followed both through the application of the lacquer. I have let the guitar sit for two weeks to let the finish harden. It looks great so far. Now I'm ready to level and buff. I found some of the Abralon on E-bay and can level using the 1000, 2000, and 4000 grit. I don't have a buffing wheel. I may add one to my shop someday, but I don't want to wait to finish this guitar. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting a nice glossy finish without using a buffing wheel?

Author:	JJ Donohue [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:42 am ]
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Welcome aboard Wayne!!! I wet sand with Micro-Mesh through 12,000 grit and could get away without buffing on a wheel...it's that shiney. Buffing really adds to the depth and gives it that pro look, but you could also hand buff. My 1st never was buffed out on a wheel and looks great. Once you get fingerprints and campaign scratches and nicks no one will ever know!

Author:	tippie53 [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:41 pm ]
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I use a varibale speed random orbital buffing machine. Grizzly.com has them. The grizzly PN is H1358. One of the best finishing tools I ever got. I use 3M's perfectit handglaze and finneseit as my buffing and polishing compounds. The beauty is the RO machine leaves no swirl marks john hall PS order an extra pad

Author:	Robbie O'Brien [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:15 am ]
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you can also hand rub them out to a high gloss using Macquire's deep cut, fine cut and swirl removal polishing compounds. Wet sand up to about a500 grit and then use the polishing compounds

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:16 am ]
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Before I got my buffer I did simular to John with mico-Mesh on my RO sander. You can get Micro-Mesh loop backed pad and sheets for much less than at the luthier supply houses by going to http://www.micro-surface.com if you already have you sanding pads order the sample packs. Order two sample packs of the 3x6 sheets for $13 ea that is $26 vs $40 for the same thing at the luthier supply houses

Author:	Colby Horton [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:40 am ]
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I wouldn't start the leveling with Abralon. Abralon is not good for getting the initial leveling done. It's to soft and squishy. Start leveling the finish by wet sanding with silicon carbide 800 or 1,000-grit wrapped around a rubber sanding block. Once you get the finish level you can start sanding with the Abralon. As for buffing I would probably recommend the compounds that stew-mac sells. You can get some foam pads for a high speed drill at some auto body shops.

Author:	BruceH [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:09 am ]
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Hi Wayne, I would think that by brushing, you've got quite a bit of leveling ahead of you. I brushed my first three builds - one nitro and two were Target WB). I start with silicone carbide around 320 grit and get it almost level, then progress throught the grits. I want to be fully level by the time I finish with 600 grit. After you finish with your finest grit, you can buff with a hand drill like Colby mentioned. I used a cheap lamb's wool buffing wheel on a hand drill and 3M Perfect-It and Finesse-It compound on my first (nitro) and it worked well. Finish by hand with Meguier's Show Car Glaze #7. Good luck, and remember that we want pics when you finish

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:19 am ]
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Good point I was assuming that basic level was complete, but with brushed on film your probably right. I would level with wet/dry 320 through 600 or 800 the I would move to 2400 through 12000 Micro-Mesh. My point was really addressing the issue of final gloss with out the use of a buffer. Again that would be 2400 through 12000 Micro-mesh on my var. speed RO this wil be a pretty hig gloss by the time you finish with the MM 12000, then polish out with 3m finessit or Maguire's #7 and a lambs wool padMichaelP38583.4326851852

Author:	Michael McBroom [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:40 am ]
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Regarding the buffing question, I too usually use Micromesh and then often follow it up with the polishing compound that comes in the Micromesh kit. But then I'm french polishing, too. The Maguire's Swirl Free Polish (available at auto paint stores) also works well -- but you really need a buffer for it. Like you I don't have a stationary buffer. A friend has a handheld unit that seems to work well. Think I'm gonna get one. But until then, what I do is chuck up a soft, fluffy buffing wheel into my cordless drill and use it with the Maguires. Works great, and I'm only out the few bucks for the pad and the shaft attachment. I got this stuff at one of the big box stores, as I recall. Best, Michael

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:53 am ]
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Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for. I do have a bit of leveling to do - the brush leaves ridges in the finish. And I did have my doubts about leveling with the Abralon. Michael, I had looked at the micro-mesh website as well. Did you use any polishing compound after, or did the micro-mesh give you the results you wanted? A guy I work with has an RO buffing machine I can borrow. I think I'll try that and see how things go. And I will certainly post some pictures when its finished! Thanks!

Author:	Michael McBroom [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:41 am ]
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Hey Wayne, I haven't visited the Micromesh website. Just bought the kit at a local Woodcraft store. The kit I bought went from 1500 to 6000 grits. I've found that, while 6000 gets the finish quite smooth, it's more of a matte looking finish at that point, and I can still see some rather fine lines caused by the fp and the sanding. But the polishing compound that comes with the kit does a good job of removing all that and gives a decent shine. I notice you're in Driftwood. Ever get over to Hill Country Guitars in Wimberley? Kevin over there does have a couple of walls full of primo guitars. Best, Michael

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:50 am ]
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Yes Wayne. I use Maguir's #7 polishing compound as my last step I buff it with a lambs wool pad on my power hand buffer but you can use a cordless drill with a buffin pad. be carfull not to let the edge dig in any where. The combo of the micro-mesh 12000 and polishing compound will suprise you as to how high of a gloss you will get with out the use of a high speed buffer be aware that the Maguir's #9 swirl remover is courser than the #7 polish if you use both, use the #9 first then follow with the #7 polish always use seperate padsMichaelP38583.496400463

Author:	Michael McBroom [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:01 am ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP]be aware that the Maguir's #9 swirl remover is courser than the #7 polish if you use both, use the #9 first then follow with the #7 polish always use seperate pads[/QUOTE] Just to be clear here, the Meguiar's polish I referred to above is the Mirror Glaze #82 Professional Swirl Free Polish, and is specifically formulated for use with an orbital or rotary buffer. This is not the same stuff as #9. Far as I know, the only place you can find the stuff I have is at an auto paint supply. Best, Michael

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:10 am ]
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Michael, I figured as much I was just wanting to warn Wayne in case he picked up the #9 and tried to polish with it. #9 will leave micro scratch. Why they call it swirl remover beats me. I is more of a de-oxidizer in my book than a swirl remover.

Author:	Andy Zimmerman [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:27 am ]
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John When you use your RO Buffer, do you use micromesh on the pad or is this only used with buffing compounds

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:40 am ]
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I have some of the Meguire's #9 and #7. I have a convertible with a plastic rear window. Every couple of months I need to polish out the scratches so I can see through it. The #9 is definitely a coarser grit, so I thought it might be too agressive. Michael M, I have not made it to Hill Country Guitars yet. I work in Austin, so Wimberly is in the opposite direction. Of course now I have to go check them out.

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:41 am ]
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Andy, I would think the polish compound would clog the micro mesh. At least I have never done this. when I use micro mesh it is either dry or with soapy distiled water when finished I will polish with a lambs wool pad and polish compound.

Author:	Andy Zimmerman [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:11 am ]
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That is not what I meant. Do you use micromesh pad on your buffer. I realize that you use buffing compounds with the other pads. I was just curious how you use your micromesh....by hand, on a random orbital sander or on your buffer Thanks

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:26 am ]
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Yes I buy the no hole 5" loop back from micro-surface.com i don't think they offer the 5" with holes in the std micro-mesh but they do in the MX micro mesh. However that is really for metal surfaces. I also have the micro surface's micro-mesh hook & loop soft-touch back-up pad on one of my ROs for this task. It is a padded with good coushing to form to the contours evenly. I do the waist + 2" by hand. I have not had good luck trying to use the RO in the waist.MichaelP38583.5748148148

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:51 am ]
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We need a 2" od random orbit sander....Boy I wished. this would make life easy

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:57 am ]
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Well, I guess you never know who is reading this forum.

Author:	Jerry Hossom [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:14 am ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] We need a 2" od random orbit sander....Boy I wished. this would make life easy[/QUOTE] You could make one 2" x 5", which I think might work even better on the sides, by slicing off 1-1/2" from each side of one of those discs, then trimming your abrasive and padding to match.

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